Login  •  Register

California Legal

This forum is for information, questions and comments relative to Mech Tech CCU products.
Forum rules
Please - no foul language or rude 'flaming'. Administrator will remove such posts. We are here to share comments, questions and information for the benefit of all involved and to do this in a courteous manner. No non-relevant commercial messages or links. Also the information contained in the various posts may or may not be accurate. Mech Tech systems Inc. or the forum software provider -phpBB- are not in any way liable for the accuracy of the information in the posts. The forum posting regulations have been tightened and all posts by new users will first go to an 'approval' list before they are posted to the board. Also no post containing URL's will be allowed until the poster has posted 2 legitimate posts. The reason is that we are experiencing rising levels of spam postings. ATTACHING PHOTOS: It is best to upload your photos to the forum. Linking to an off-site photo, like with Photobucket, does NOT assure that your photo will always be available. Posts that reference photos that can't be seen are much less effective/helpful.
musicman
Site Admin
Posts: 121
Joined: 14 Oct 2010, 08:58
Contact:

California Legal

Postby musicman » 06 Dec 2011, 11:49

Breaking News - some may already be aware of this. Mech Tech has done some research and it looks like the CCU can be configured to be CA legal with a stock. From what I gather the CCU is CA legal if it meets the following 3 criteria:
1) Magazine 10 rounds or less
2) Non detachable magazine (see definition below)
3) Overall length no less than 30"
4) Is not on the 'list'
If the above is met then you can also have other 'evil' features such as muzzle dec, vertical foregrip etc.

Fitted with a modified magazine release a Glock or 1911 lower defeats the 'detachable magazine' definition below because a 'tool' is required to release the magazine. [Many rilfes are now CA legal when fitted with modified magazine releases commonly called 'bullet button' (BB) releases.]

Below defines a 'detachable magazine':
CCR 11; 5469 (a)
"detachable magazine" means any ammunition feeding device that can be removed readily from the firearm with neither disassembly of the firearm action nor use of a tool being required. A bullet or ammunition cartridge is considered a tool. Ammunition feeding device includes any belted or linked ammunition, but does not include clips, en bloc clips, or stripper clips that load cartridges into the magazine.

The 30" min. length is important because the CCU 'Basic Unit' with a lower installed but without a stock would be illegal according to the 'handgun flow chart'. Attached are three PDF's. AW 'flow chart1' shows how the CCU is seen by CA. The 'AW flow chart2' gives some legal data. Looking at the 'handgun flow chart' in box 1 the 'Basic Unit' with or without a stock is not a handgun, therefore it moves to the AW chart where the 30" figure applies. More documentation to follow.
MM
Attachments
AW Flow chart2.pdf
(3.12 MiB) Downloaded 5196 times
AW flow chart1.pdf
(631.32 KiB) Downloaded 1031 times
Handgun Flow chart.pdf
(483.62 KiB) Downloaded 1244 times

musicman
Site Admin
Posts: 121
Joined: 14 Oct 2010, 08:58
Contact:

Re: California Legal

Postby musicman » 06 Dec 2011, 16:12

Hi all - Mech Tech just gave me a PDF showing how to modify a Glock magazine release so that a tool is necessary to release the magazine. I think MTS will supply these or you have the option to do it yourself. It's not exactly rocket science - a belt sander is one way to do it. Make certain to meet the dimensions shown - there should be no way that any normal part of the human anatomy can release the magazine I would think.
Have fun,
MM
Attachments
Mag Release Mods.pdf
(17.81 KiB) Downloaded 2317 times

musicman
Site Admin
Posts: 121
Joined: 14 Oct 2010, 08:58
Contact:

Re: California Legal

Postby musicman » 09 Dec 2011, 11:49

More on 'bullet button' (BB) mag release for the Glock. Here is a link to a YouTube which shows how to remove/install a Glock mag release.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oE_AM6GWVsQ

When you modify a Glock release for CA legal, you will probably want to change back from the BB release to the stock release when the Glock is re-configured as a normal pistol. This YouTube is well done and shows much more than just the mag release stuff.
Hope this helps,
MM

razoray
Posts: 2
Joined: 12 Jul 2011, 11:03
Contact:

Re: California Legal

Postby razoray » 31 Dec 2011, 20:39

Happy New Year to all, MM I am glad to see a posting for Kaliforna legal mods. I made a BB for my 1911, just filed down a mag release below frame level, to a ponit were a finger CAN NOT push in the release. Becarefull not to go to far (there is a spring in there) . Putting the mod. release in can be a little tricky... but can be done.. one very important point with the shortned mag release installed, DO NOT push on it unless there a mag in place, other wise the shortned release can pop into the frame and will have to fished back into place. When there is mag in place there is'nt any problem (the mag will stop the release from going in to far). A .45 round tip is to large to push on the release so I use an emty 5.56 with a boat tail bullet pressed backwards. The copper bullet jacket wont damage the pistiol frames finish and is truly a "tool". Ca. AW laws are a pain, but we do what has to be done. MM you may want to post the short BBL regs. on Calguns.net, there has been a LOT of misinformation posted there about pistol/rifle/sbr having to do with the Mectech system that needs to be cleared up. Thanks, Ray

musicman
Site Admin
Posts: 121
Joined: 14 Oct 2010, 08:58
Contact:

Re: California Legal

Postby musicman » 02 Jan 2012, 09:18

Thanks razoray - your point about the possibility of operating the modified mag release without a magazine in place and having it fall into the magwell is well taken. The same applies to a modified Glock release - do not operate the release without a magazine in place. Not a major handicap though - why would one need to operate the release without a magazine in place?
As to the misinformation floating around cyber space relative to the legalities of the Mech Tech CCU conversion process you are also correct. What I think would be very helpful is to have everyone who regularly visits/posts to these forums be on the lookout for wrong advice and then post a correction and possibly link to the Mech Tech site where the correct info is available.
Happy New Year,
MM

LEV8
Posts: 1
Joined: 07 Jun 2012, 03:26
Contact:

Re: Can a glock lower be registered as a pistol and a rifle?

Postby LEV8 » 07 Jun 2012, 03:39

I have a sneaky feeling that no matter what mods are done to your lower it has still been registered as a "PISTOL" lower and, as such can not have a barrel length that qualifies it as a rifle (16"). Am I wrong or is it legal in California to have a lower registered as a pistol and a rifle? Every time I call the police and ask them about borderline subjects such as this (especially regarding AR15 pistols) they tell me that in California on BLM land or in transit to/from BLM land or a legal shooting range it is the officer that determines whether you go to the pokey or not for whatever weapon configurations are in your possession. It seems that if he/she found my glock lower and a 16" barrel he/she might be confused. I do hope I am wrong but before I make a purchase I want to hear your responses.

musicman
Site Admin
Posts: 121
Joined: 14 Oct 2010, 08:58
Contact:

Re: California Legal

Postby musicman » 07 Jun 2012, 07:59

Hello Lev8 - let me begin by emphasizing that Mech Tech or this forum moderator are not legal experts and cannot give solid legal advice. What research has been done has been documented in the 'sticky' posts under the relative topics on this forum. I can however offer some thoughts on the subject. Firstly, the registration of a firearm as to type is a matter of Federal jurisdiction. The BATF licenses manufacturers and the determination of the firearm status - eg: rifle or pistol - is made at the time of manufacture of the serialized component (receiver). As discussed in the topic 'Recent BATF ruling - important' it should be clear that from a Federal law standpoint one can, without special licensing, add a 16+" barrel and a shoulder stock to a pistol receiver and then remove it and re-configure the pistol to it's original form. During the transformation the receiver remains a pistol receiver.
Looking at the chart under the 'California Legal' topic it would appear that the combination of a pistol lower and the Mech Tech upper is legal. Now as to what interpretation is given by a law enforcement officer, that is anyone's guess. Unfortunately there have been instances in CA where that interpretation has been incorrect thus causing considerable inconvenience to the owner of the weapon even though at the end of the day the owner was vindicated. Time to make some changes in CA legislators. Near as I can tell that is the reality of the situation. Mech Tech does however sell many units to CA customers indicating some level of confidence in the legalities. Bear in mind that you must comply with the criteria outlined in the first post under this topic.
Hope this helps,
MM

omosha
Posts: 1
Joined: 18 Jul 2012, 12:01
Contact:

Re: California Legal

Postby omosha » 18 Jul 2012, 12:16

I was in a gun store the other day and there happened to be a retired agent in the store swapping stories when I brought in my MechTech 1911 rifle in to find a shoulder strap for it. Luckily I walked out with it as well without any problems, although there are a few issues I'll share to help the conversation.

Immediately when I walked in the store, the gunsmith said, that's an illegal gun and you'll get charged with a felony if you're found with that. This then caught the attention of the agent and he chimed in sharing the same opinion.
I then shared my research about how it was legal given the following criteria already stated in the forum. (minus BB release which I haven't modified yet as I really like my Kimber as is)

After a bit of banter it boiled down to this:
1) Yes I could get busted because I don't have the BB modified yet :oops:
2) In california you're guilty until proven innocent and if the officer who finds your mod is not able to be convinced that it is legal, he will error on the conservative side, confiscate your weapon and charge you with a felony. You'll then have to fight the legal argument in court to get out of jail and have your 'rifle' returned to you. If an officer finds it, you better have documentation of how this is legal and educate them quickly (and politely)

THE GOOD NEWS: if you follow the above criteria in this forum, standard Mechtech upper and file down the magazine release so it cannot be released without a tool there's a way to be safe.
When in transit, do not have your rifle assembled. If it's not assembled, it's just considered gun parts and the officer has little to no recourse to consider this a felony. This will at least cut down on the potential of getting busted, as most officers uneducated on the particulars will most likely be highway patrol officers rather than ones that are at the gun range. At least that's my hope.

Bottom line, keep it dissembled until you're ready to use it and it's just considered gun parts. Good luck all!

musicman
Site Admin
Posts: 121
Joined: 14 Oct 2010, 08:58
Contact:

Re: California Legal

Postby musicman » 19 Jul 2012, 08:56

Hi omosha - excellent thoughts. Ignorance is the enemy of all. It's the reason we have what we have for leadership in our government - the people need to pay more attention and get educated and involved in the process. Enough of my soapbox. Yes, you must have the infamous 'bullet button' mag release. As for your Kimber - I agree, don't modify the stock mag release - purchase a cheapie aftermarket part and modify it for use with the CCU.
Thanks,
MM

3Liniya
Posts: 1
Joined: 04 Aug 2012, 17:57
Contact:

Re: California Legal

Postby 3Liniya » 04 Aug 2012, 18:13

I came up with an alternative to grinding down the mag button. Didn't want to dedicate my 1911 to the CCU and I love the duality of both, so I cut, drilled and shaped some 1/8" aluminum to fit between the grip panel and frame. Granted, I do need to fab up a new pair of panels( one of which will be 1/8" thinner) but changing out grips takes maybe a minute and well worth (imho) still being able to drop a mag with my thumb when it's in the pistol mode
Attachments
bb3.jpg
1/8" aluminum, 2" wide purchased at home depot.


Return to “General CCU discussion”